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polandspringz · 4 years ago

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Poland’s Thoughts on the OM Angel Event

AKA- I’m trying to bridge this divide in the fandom that only seems to worsen with every piece of new content

So, I just finished the new event, but before I even finished it I saw in the tags a lot of people posting about it and the majority of the reactions were negative. There’s a chance I’m reading the language in the posts a little too strongly, but I think that a lot of this anger towards the developers is misplaced, and this isn’t just limited to the OM fandom, but it is one example that can be representative of a growing issue in how we as fans consume media and interpret content, especially when it extends to how we interact with the creators of said content.

To begin, I understand what people are angry about with this event. They disliked the way the brothers were forced against their will (consent is a term I am seeing thrown around on a few posts) to act righteous, due to the bangles Simeon gave on them that were imbued with magic. People are upset seeing the brothers acting so unlike themselves, Diavolo’s role in it, as both an instigator and bystander, and how Simeon was characterized throughout this event as he largely did not see much wrong with what was happening.

I think the reason so many players are leaving this event with a sour taste is because of the lack of closure. I was taking notes on the entire event and waiting for the end to undo everything like usual and we get the characters discussing how happy they were to be back to normal again or we at least get some of their own thoughts on the experience. I was surprised that we did not get that this time, instead, we only see all the brothers continue to act unlike themselves under the spell, way too cheery and perfect with only Lucifer having partially broken the spell and watching on amused, acting as another bystander in the event. We are given the implication that the rest will return to normal in due time (somewhat like the ending of the Paws event, if I am recalling correctly) but it’s not concrete enough. We should have been given at least an extra few lines of dialogue of the characters back to normal giving their comments on the situation they went through, but because we didn’t, they don’t have any autonomy still, and we as the players are left uncertain about what is our interpretation and what is canon.

However, despite us missing this ending scene, I think the narrative of the event is undeniably still about the idea of one’s true self being important, flaws and all, and I think a lot of players are missing this concept.

When I said earlier that I think many fandoms are suffering from this problem, I’m referring to this problem where fans will gleam a theme from a work, often times it is a theme meant to showcase something problematic, and then the fans will turn on the authors and go “well it’s problematic so the creators’ are in the wrong”, forgetting that the only reason they’re interpreting it as being wrong is because the creators’ intentionally added that frame into the story. I have more strong feelings about this in the BNHA fandom, but for now, let’s stick to the OM fandom and this specific event:

1) Players are mad that the brothers were forcibly changed and not acting like themselves.

This is a valid thing to be angry about, but I am surprised seeing how many people are ignoring the fact that you as the player are given options to acknowledge that you dislike the “righteous” way the characters are being forced to behave. There are multiple points throughout this event where, when the brothers are apologizing or explaining the MC how much they’ve changed, that you can chose an option to say “I liked the old you”, “There’s something off,” or something akin to that. OM does have an issue with a lot of the dialogue options for the MC being a bit too passive, but in this event, you are not forced to like the behavior. During my playthrough of it, I actually refused to kiss some of the characters and almost exclusively told them I disliked the way they were acting even if it was something good like giving to charity in Mammon’s case.

In terms of the brothers’ being forced to act this way against their will, although the overall event does not paint this in a dark tone (it treats the brothers’ actions the same way it does any of their individual scenes with MC in other events), there are pieces of dialogue that help create this theme of choice and free will. In the first set of lessons, Beel says to the MC “It’s something I want to do, not because I’m obligated to.” A few lessons later, Belphegor says “It’s the first time I’ve felt so free.” There is blatant irony in these lines because we as the players know that there is nothing about freedom or wants/personal desires coming from these characters in this state. It’s not even dramatic irony because the MC witnessed and knows that the brothers are under a spell, hence why you can still say you miss how they were acting and that Solomon even acknowledges that things feel wrong. When I see players comment about how they are upset about the brothers being forced to act this way, I don’t understand how they are mad at the writers when it is written in the way that you are supposed to know their words are disingenuous. I will admit that the light hearted tone does offset it and make it seem as if the developers are painting their actions in a good light, but we as the MC are constantly given the option to say that something is wrong. This is not a matter of the developers seeing it as a “good” thing, but they leave it up to the player to make the choice to choose whether to embrace the way the brothers are acting as a positive thing (and personally all the options where you agree with the controlled actions of the brothers’ made me feel as though- if I chose them- that MC was not in a healthy, truthful relationship with the brothers).

In terms of the “consent” argument being thrown around, it is a valid word choice to use in this situation, however, I am surprised to see no one talking about the scene with Lucifer directly involving consent with MC. In lesson 1-12, when you are in his room with him, he asks you to get on the bed, and then pushes you down before the spell controlling him corrects his actions and he apologizes. It is not shown that he pushes you, but the flow of the scene is this-

Lucifer asks MC to get on the bed. Noise is then heard as if someone was putting weight on the bed and Lucifer says “You really trust me quite a lot,” before he says “I didn’t mean to push you down like that.”

Some players may have read it as the MC getting on the bed themselves, and whether Lucifer pushed them onto the bed is debatable, but it’s heavily implied that he at the very least pushes you down onto the bed. I think if anything, the use of the word consent in terms of this event needs to be applied here, as Lucifer forces the MC down without their consent (player is not given an option about whether to comply with his request) before the angelic-form makes him apologize for what he did. I normally am against the people who dislike how evil the demons act (they’re demons! They’re meant to be acting sinful or wrong or disagreeable with our own morals) but I just thought that if people are going to talk about consent in terms of the brothers, we should acknowledge how the theme of consent and choice is also shown in scenes like this, where the spell on Lucifer actually does a good thing by correcting his behavior when he was doing something wrong.

However, there is one more point I want to make about this event, and it follows this discussion about the demon’s behavior-

2) This event, had it been given closure, would’ve had a strong theme of accepting oneself.

This is most clearly seen with Levi and Satan. With Satan, we are aware of his dislike of his rage, his wrath. He does not like to get angry, and puts on masks to try and seem better than his core sin makes him feel. However, when he gets turned into an angel, he specifically says:

“Perhaps that’s why I feel so strange. I don’t feel like myself at all. I end up thinking about if I were an angel, would i have looked and felt like this? And then... I get a foreboding feeling. Like, my heart... becoming tranquil. Normally, that wouldn’t seem like something bad right? Something isn’t right.”

Once again, I would like to point out that the reason that players are able to look at this event and say, “The brothers are being forced to not act like themselves, and that’s bad and upsets me as a player” is because the writers themselves are writing into the story that it is bad. Satan is directly acknowledging that he dislikes what is going on, hence why we as players can say that something is wrong. This isn’t my core analysis of this dialogue, but once again, it is something I am growing tired of seeing people attack or complain about the creators for writing something that is “bad”, as if the creators did not write in the fact that “this is a bad thing.” You can criticize media and the way things are written, but if you are going to ignore the fact that what you’re claiming the writers are ignoring has already been written, your criticism holds little weight.

Moving on, my main takeaway from this scene was that Satan, a character who has spent so long loathing his anger and how he loses himself during it, was upset by his lack of it. We as the MC got very little dialogue in this scene to push the idea further, but to me it was clear that had the story been given more closure, or the events having more story to include more focus on each character, we could have gotten more of a direct statement from Satan of something like “I always disliked my rage, but without it, I don’t feel like me. I’m who I am because of my rage, it’s not something I should be ashamed of.” If that had been included, I’m sure players would have once again been much happier about this event. However, we shouldn’t need such a direct statement of character development to understand that development has happened. One of the biggest techniques about writing dialogue is the idea that when people talk, they don’t say everything, which I see a lot of fandoms griping about when characters don’t directly express things like trauma or abuse in concrete terms or have conversations where they directly say things like “You did something bad to me and I won’t forgive you for that” (I can’t think of the best example right now because it’s 2 AM but again, I have better examples when talking about the BNHA fandom). Ernest Hemingway and his iceberg technique focused on this idea of people rarely saying what they mean, and it’s a much more realistic approach to dialogue.

I’m not saying the writing of OM is anything near the works of great writers. However, I am saying that we shouldn’t need characters to be so unnatural and direct in their dialogue to be satisfied that development has been had or resolution has been met. It’s not natural for them to outright say so, and as readers we shouldn’t need such explicit confirmation of such things (note: when using “confirmation” I am only talking about instances of development, and not things like confirmed representation of LGBTQ or characters expressing their sexuality. Those are entirely different situations requiring different discussion. Please do not misconstrue my words).

Back to the themes of the choice and accepting oneself, I want to end this on the character that truly got the short end of this event- Levi. Levi was so instantaneously changed to have righteous actions and a similar mindset, and there was very little discussion on it within the game itself. However, although Levi does not express much outside of his “controlled” state in this event, when he talks about his “old lifestyle”, we as players can still get a lot from it:

“Huh? My identity? Was my identity solely based on me being an otaku? I’ve been using anime, manga, and games to hide all this time... Always looking down on others while locking myself away in my own world. But not anymore! Instead of spending all my time and energy on 2D stuff, I’m going to spend it on nurturing my relationships in the real world. Doesn’t that sound wonderful?”

It does not sound wonderful, because it brings up the questions of “Was there anything actually wrong with Levi’s lifestyle to begin with?” Sure, he was a shut in, and that can’t be healthy, and he had a bad self loathing issue, but, he found happiness in anime, manga, and games. He found happiness in sharing it with you the player. We know this from the main storyline, and so we know that Levi is obviously not truly thinking this, but unfortunately we never get to see a conclusion of his thoughts on this, and he is given no autonomy by the end of the event to comment on his words here. I will agree with people that Levi’s is the most upsetting, partially because it makes my fanfiction writer mind spin into thoughts of him trapped inside his body wanting to keep his things but being forced to throw them out. That is upsetting. But it is not something we should be attacking or getting mad at the writers for, because if you are reading the story right, it can be seen as meant to evoke that reaction. Likely if you are Levi stan, this scene upset you, and you should be unhappy to see him acting this way. You should know something’s wrong, because there was nothing wrong with how Levi was living before. But, the last big theme of the event is the idea of good vs. evil, or right vs. wrong, and as we are playing a game where the main idea is to romance demons, we are always going to be skewed to see the traditional “good” side (of Simeon and the angels) as not truly good, and the “bad” side (of the demons) as not really that bad. We can sympathize with them, we understand and feel upset at seeing them slighted by what is considered “good. I saw one person bring up the idea of this event evoking questions of ethics, and I agree, but I’m better at explaining things through philosophy. This event, especially for Simeon’s character, brings to mind questions of if the Celestial Realm in the game’s universe is actually good and has the best interests of others in mind, or if it is actually deeply flawed by its staunchness to what is considered goodness? (We can see similar discussions in shows like Good Omens.)

To conclude, I just want to finish up on Simeon’s character in this event. I saw many exclamations of “why would he do this? What’s wrong with him?” and I like to present the idea that Simeon is much stronger of a manipulator than we have been viewing him through the lens of “holy angel”. He writes TSL based on the brothers, he likely views them as content to inspire him. He does not care for them as deeply as we as the fandom may be twisting him to be. Overall, I find all these problems with reading and analyzing media to stem from people having trouble interpreting morally gray characters, themes, and actions, and often they claim an author is making something black and white when the author is actually directly telling the reader things are not black and white. OM is such a small fandom in the grand scheme of things, but rather than me rehashing an argument in a much larger fandom, this seemed like a refreshing, safer place to start.

If you read through all this, I do hope you enjoyed. My ask box is always open if you want to hear more of my thoughts.

#obey me #shall we date #obey me shall we date #obey me mammon #obey me lucifer #obey me leviathan #obey me satan #obey me beelzebub #obey me belphegor #obey me asmodeus #obey me simeon #obey me angels #obey me devs #poland's thoughts

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kotsume · 4 years ago

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my observations as a content creator :) warning: it’s long

if you’re reading this, don’t think too deeply about what i wrote - it’s just my analysis of fan blogs and some fandoms (so it’s all from my perspective). do what you want with this information, and feel free to lmk what you think ;)

*i tried to include as many anime-applicable blogs as i could remember*

multifandom reblog blogs (ones who track a tag):

@/allanimanga: lots of original content every day. does not reblog from tag anymore bc most members who had that job are inactive. i’m an admin and i’ve been told not to worry about reblogging from the tag, and just make content. has member privilege abuse from certain users; normally you make content for the blog and you get to reblog your stuff over in a 1:1 ratio, but they will just use the blog to promote themselves without contributing. it’s really sad but there’s nothing we can do bc most of the time it’s an admin.

@/animacia: was debating whether or not to put this one. reblogs mainstream anime (sailor moon, studio ghibli) and has a tag, but the tag itself does not seem to be actively used as the most recent post can see tagged for this blog dates back to june 2019 (more than a year ago). it’s an active blog regardless of slow tag activity.

@/animationsource: active, but very picky? idk man they either do or don’t reblog your stuff. it’s a hit or miss with them. seems to have member privilege abuse/preference (explained up there). not too sure if they have a queue or just reblog sporadically.

@/anisource: active. seems to run on a large, backlogged queue bc their tag is full of stuff that has yet to be reblogged. edits will probably take a while to be reblogged, but they’ll eventually get there!

@/dailyanime: new blog, but from what i’ve experienced, they will queue it, and your post will be reblogged in 1-3 days (it probably depends on how much is in their queue).

@/fyanimegifs: will reblog your stuff, but they have a very slow queue.

@/graphicsources: not really active; spontaneous at best. don’t count on them to reblog your stuff.

@/fyeahshoujo: not really active, but not completely inactive.

@/fysportsanime & @/sportsanimedaily: active. seems to have a backlogged queue, but just wait and you’ll be reblogged! it will take some time because there are lots of posts.

@/animangascenery & @/otomokatsuhiro (#oldanimeedit - changes url from time to time? that’s why i included the tag they track): inactive unless a member looks at the tag. in that case, they will most likely reblog the tagged post. typically mass reblogs/queues from the tag every once in a while.

@/bbelcher & @/fyeahmovies: will reblog ghibli and makoto shinkai stuff. bonus points if you have added a text description to gifs. 80% dependable.

@/filmgifs, @/filmtv, @/stream, @/movie-gifs, etc. (basically big reblog fansites that aren’t anime-oriented, but do reblog mainstream anime movies): 90% chance they will not reblog anything from you if there is no text description. add text descriptions to studio ghibli/makoto shinkai film gifs and make it pretty! use text gradients!! that will increase your chances of being reblogged by them. they don’t reblog seasonal anime.

a note: many creators use tags as a way of reaching a broader audience. it's really helpful for smaller blogs who would like to share their content to others, but do not have the means/numbers to do so. just bc some people don't utilize tags to their full potential, it doesn't mean it isn't useful, so pls don’t try to act superior to those who want more exposure. everyone deserves a chance at getting the attention they deserve for their hard work!

studio ghibli reblog blogs:

@/ghiblisdaily: great. amazing. i love them!! will reblog from you 99.9% of the time. probably the most reliable ghibli blog as of right now. uploads original content

@/fyghibli: used to be good at reblogging from tag, but has gone kind of inactive. i think they’re becoming more active again, but it’s very sporadic.

@/kikisdeliveryservices: they track a variety of studio ghibli related tags, and they do reblog a lot, but i don’t think they’re as consistent as ghiblisdaily. lots of original content.

@/oh-totoro: not really active, but when they are (and they reblog from you), your activity skyrockets.

@/dailyghibli: not active.

@/daily-ghibli: sometimes active, a little wishy-washy. they seem to be reblogging a little bit more consistently now?

@/princessghibli: not active, but reblogs here and there.

@/ghibligif: a new blog, but decently active. will reblog post from their tracked tag within a day. lots of original content.

main point: there are many studio ghibli blogs (wayyyy more than i’ve listed here), but only around 3-4 active ones. choose your tags with what you think will give you the best exposure bc if you have too much, tumblr will go “fuck you” and not show your post at all :)

random anime fandoms:

i’ll really only be including ones i’m in, or know a bit about.

haikyuu, bnha, kny, yoi: healthy and very active. content for these fandoms do well even if they’re not in season. has multiple active fan blogs (except for yoi tho - they’re all inactive for the most part).

noragami, ohshc, ons, snk, tg, swnku: active fandoms. edits will do moderately well bc most people have seen these.

popular sports anime (knb, free, dna, tsurune? idk i don’t watch much sports anime): they do okay. i rarely see any new sports anime edits beside haikyuu, but people do love their sports anime. has active sports fan blogs.

pokemon & sailor moon: old but gold. lots of people love these anime bc it’s part of their childhood. still very popular amongst tumblr users.

violet evergarden: does moderately well. @/fyeahvioletevergarden will reblog your stuff if you choose to tag them (big boost)! with the new movie coming up soon, there may be a resurgence in activity, but the most recent movie did not have much content made for it, so that hope may be crushed.

tpn: not very active, but with the new season coming up soon, there will be a resurgence in activity.

ditf: kind of dead, but lots of people love zero two. edits do moderately well.

sao: dead. absolutely dead. i thought there would be some activity bc it’s in season right now, but no, it’s a dead fandom. low key sao sucks tho. idek where the plot is going; i’m just hoping for an end.

hxh, one piece, fma, code geass: i’m not in it, but i think they do okay bc they have a large following, just not as well as haikyuu or bnha (but they’re still very popular). it depends on your blog demographic tho.

mp100, opm, bsd, given: kind of medium-tier fandoms. not as prevalent as haikyuu or bnha, but there are still edits being made for these anime. they don’t really have any active fan blogs (besides given i think) bc none of them are airing rn.

makoto shinkai & studio ghibli films: they do great! everybody loves good scenery, and the films are very well known and loved by all!

some seasonal anime (spring/summer 2020)

fruits basket: well this reboot blew up and overshadowed everything in it’s path. tbh only edits posted on the first day of the new episode do well. it’s a very competitive fandom for creators.

kaguya sama love is war: first season was good, edits did well. second season drifted off into the shadow of fruits basket. relatively obscure fandom for how popular it is amongst people (non-creators).

tower of god: popular with creators. now that it’s not airing, no one gifs it. respective fan blog is doing its best with content from the manhwa.

fugou keiji balance unlimited: people were simping even before the first ep came out, and then the anime went on hiatus for a few months. now that it’s started to air again, everyone acts like it never existed in the first place... was a good fandom up until the hiatus and now it will probably take a while to recover.

god of high school: nonexistent even tho it’s a popular pick this season (summer 2020). in the shadow of fruits basket.

deca-dence, bna, great pretender, kakushigoto, the misfit at demon king academy, rent-a-girlfriend: *sigh* didn’t see much of it on my dash. lesser-watched seasonal anime in comparison to fruits basket and tower of god (all relative to tumblr). there are gifs being made, but you have to follow the right blogs.

main point: if there’s any seasonal anime paired up against fruits basket at the same time, fruits basket will win and the former will be left in the dust.

#i've been itching to write this for a while #just my thoughts as a #content creator who uses tags #feel free to correct me on anything #or give me a new perspective #text #mine #mytext

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lavenderek · 4 years ago

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fwiw i’m an A*3 volunteer - i do tag wrangling, actually - and i really do need to emphasise the fact that we are VOLUNTEERS, and there’s really nothing we can do when it comes to bigger issues re: the core of how the site runs and the values people feel it holds.

what i am really tired of is people assuming things about me because i’m a volunteer. people can be so ridiculously vitriolic - like that anon you got who was immediately at you like ‘SO YOU’RE FINE WITH CHILD ABUSE?’ is a perfect example of what i mean. no, i’m not, but i honestly do appreciate a rare space online that is *relatively* unmoderated - which is NOT to say it isn’t completely unmoderated. like you said, there are so many cultural aspects to even simple tags, and as a tag wrangler, you’re ‘trained’ on that. that’s just tag wrangling - i’m sure higher up volunteer positions also take the time and care to educate volunteers correctly on how to manage their roles.

again, though, there is fundamentally very little us volunteers can do for parts people might disagree with. we come from all walks of life and there are so many roles and we all only have so much time. fact is, the website is the way it and it’s unlikely to change beyond perhaps adding more ‘social media’ type functions, like blocking people. if you feel that there is content that is inappropriate or commenters that are inappropriate or whatever, you can report it directly to the people running the website (which i’ve personally done before for an extreme underage fic about a real life - albeit of-age - person), and i obviously didn’t check back to see if it had been removed, but i assume it was dealt with because i genuinely do have faith in the moderators. anyway, just some insight as someone who works with the site.

hey! thanks for the info actually this is really interesting. sorry about the delayed response, i saved it as a draft to come back to it later and then i got busy at work and forgot

while you're here, you mind if i ask you some questions? feel free not to answer, you're not obligated

i separated it into sections because i’m what? longwinded and easily confused

1. can this happen (has questions for you in it)

it's my understanding that the big uproar vis a vis CP fic on a*3 is more that a*3 is inadvertently creating a space where p*dophiles feel safe and can establish a following, in turn allowing them to normalize what they're doing and gain access to potential victims.

tldr, it's less "this is inappropriate" and more "the person who made this is dangerous." like, if the person who wrote that nasty fic you reported had a whole profile full of similar content and was gaining a following from it, that would be concerning.

is the overall effect a user has something that you all take into account when you're going through content on the site, or are you instructed to take the specific piece of content at face value?

and, do you think that's something it's possible to address by moderators? regardless of whether or not it’ll actually happen, do you think that is possible on this system?

and, even more optional than the other questions, if that was possible, what do you think that would look like?

2. what is the process like on your end (has questions for you in it)

just for my own curiosity, how much leeway do you as a volunteer have over whether a fic should be reported?

is it up to your own judgment or is there like a rubric or something?

and what happens if the moderators decide that yeah, this fic can't be up anymore, do they remove the fic or kill the user's profile or what?

what happens if you report something, and the moderators decide it’s fine? does that reflect on you in their eyes?

how often do you report fic?

3. clarification of motive (does not have questions for you in it, now i’m just talking)

like i hear you that you, personally, Anon J. Wranglerton, don't have control over the site itself. the topic of CP and abuse is touchy and wigs people out because it sort of self perpetuates.

it's like that anecdote that went viral a few years ago where a bartender explained that allowing one polite n*zi into the bar leads very quickly into lots of n*zis being in the bar. people want the n*zis removed from the bar.

i'm sorry people accuse you of being an abuse apologist because of that, i think the idea that people wouldn't really see abuse as a concern is like, actually horrifying to them lmao and i can't necessarily blame them for that in and of itself

4. if i see where they’re coming from then what’s my problem (does not have questions for you in it, now i’m just talking)

i guess i don't share that reaction because disgusting content online isn't anything new for me. i accidentally came across it all the time when i was a kid going online. i nearly fell victim to an actual predator when i was 12 or 13. thankfully, once he asked me for more personal information i was able to get scared and see some red flags. (or if he wasn’t a predator then i should probably go and find my chat room boyfriend Oukami who explained “yiffing” to me and told me to send him pictures of myself so he could make me a wolf fursona)

from my perspective, the a*3 debate looks like this: predators are a concept that is deeply embedded in every corner of the internet, and very suddenly, people are very up in arms about a very specific website having predators on it. it’s like if all of a sudden people were like, “there are customers at Target who yell at the employees. if you still shop at Target, unfollow me.”

like, yeah, you’re right, and that’s bad, but why Target specifically, and why now, you know?

i think predators should be made to feel extremely unsafe in fandom spaces lmao, but i also think that’s something that can only be tackled socially. playing whack-a-mole with predators is a tale as old as time.

5. online predators (does not have questions for you in it, now i’m just talking)

this is just me talking out of my ass, but my theory is that a huge component in kids today getting caught up by predators online is that the concept of anonymity and fear of strangers online has some holes in it on here.

first of all, people just a couple years younger than i am grew up on social media. that was the entire online landscape ever since myspace.

influencers use their real names and faces, and they have millions of followers and are treated like celebrities. a lot of these social networks make it extremely difficult to hide your identity at all. you sign in to youtube with your google account, which is linked to your phone and all your other accounts. instagram, twitter, facebook, and tumblr can all be connected, and a few of those apps encourage it and will interrupt you posting to be like “do you want to also put this on twitter, Firstname Lastname?” no, janet, i’m good. thank you though

this lends a certain amount of freedom to predators, because there is nothing stopping them from assessing somebody’s vulnerability and reaching out to them.

6. online predators in fandom spaces specifically (does not have questions for you in it, now i’m just talking)

i think the fandom space cultivated on tumblr has actively contributed to that.

look at all these blogs, they’ve got “about me” descriptions with their name, their age, a blurb about their interests, their gender identity, their romantic/sexual preferences, sometimes their fuckin myers-briggs designation. this is all expected behavior on tumblr.

it starts as a sort of “this is my blog, here’s what i’m about,” and is compounded by like, “NTs can reblog this post but don’t say anything stupid,” or “minors DNI, how old are you,” like, you have to kind of verify that you’re “allowed,” in a sense, to participate in some conversations or interact with some posts.

i think there’s merit in both of those things, blogs are for self expression and for interacting with likeminded users; and i don’t think it’s “gatekeeping” to stop straighties from clowning on your post about queer issues.

but this has inadvertently created a sort of entitlement to private information. it also creates this false idea that because you and i have x and y in common, we can interact comfortably.

it’s crucial to remember that predators aren’t all scary white men who want to visit you at home. some of them are cool 20-somethings who just happen to be normalizing sexual content with children in it. and they genuinely don’t see what they’re doing as wrong. if they’re already your friend, and you see them saying shit about how they’re not hurting anybody, it’s just pretend, it’s just a kink, then you’re probably going to sympathize with them.

this isn’t to say, “stupid kids, they’re bringing this on themselves by oversharing to the wrong people,” because it’s neither kids’ fault nor unique to children. this kind of oversharing is taking place with all ages and kinds of people on tumblr.

this is to say, this is what this particular subculture has caused: healthy boundaries are kind of bulldozed to make room for a kind of disorganized sense of community and morality.

7. back to CP on a*3 (does not have questions for you in it, now i’m just talking)

i think this kind of “CP is disgusting and you’re disgusting for looking at it” shit is dangerous.

things this is NOT because of:

CP deserves a place online

It’s A Slippery Slope, What Will They Ban Next

um, kinkshaming

there is no point in even trying to get predators off a*3

i just think it’s completely unhelpful. it’s literally a waste of their time. they’re wasting their time and hurting themselves and others in the process. it’s lacking in nuance and perspective.

what we should be saying is “CP is a red flag. CP tells you something about the person posting it.”

we shouldn’t be asking “are you okay with child abuse,” we should be asking, “what does this content say about the person posting it? are they unsafe to have around? if i realize too late that they’re unsafe, who can i turn to?” those are the kinds of questions we should be asking if our goal really is to protect people.

what the collection of block lists of supposed abuse apologists says is this: “you have to choose between not having to police online behavior, and proving your morals to me, a complete fucking stranger. if your morals are lacking, you’re out, we don’t speak to you anymore, and we tell everyone who will listen that you are a bad person.”

not to delegitimize their concerns, but it’s fully just mccarthyism. like... that’s what mccarthyism was like. the fact that mccarthyism was bad isn’t even the point, it’s important to recall that mccarthyism did not work. it stopped happening for myriad reasons, one of which was that it was hurting people and wasting resources and doing absolutely nothing else.

i obviously don’t want to be labeled “anti-american pinko scum” and fired from my job and disallowed from my neighbor’s house. who would? they’re not actually weeding out anybody dangerous, they’re just rounding people up who are just as angry as they are or who are scared of them lmfao.

ever since that shitty post of mine went viral (which - “viral,” i guarantee it isn’t viral, i stopped looking at it literally that night) i’ve been terrified that one of these days i’m gonna like, comment on something and have the OP be like “wait a minute, you’re that bitch who made fun of some anti-a*3 people, unfollow me” lmfao. like, that’s what this rhetoric is accomplishing.

i’m not boohooing, i deserved a slap on the wrist for making rude comments. i’m just telling you the extent of the results they’re getting. they made me feel sad. so at least there’s that.

8. anti-a*3 people (has questions for anyone in it)

“fine, so we’re not trying to evangelize for not liking CP. so what? we don’t want people who like CP around. supporting that stuff is disgusting. we are blocking them for our own safety and don’t appreciate the tone police coming in and telling us it’s no big deal.” - an anti a*3 person, probably

yeah i mean, i get that. if i was really upset about something important and somebody told me “you’re right, but shut up about it,” i would also be pissed.

my question, though, is this: is the underage tag on a*3 the limit we want to place on our activism against predators online? at minimum, is yelling at and blocking people about it on tumblr making us feel safer?

and also: how are we going to define the things we are trying to get rid of? what is underage? how do we account for differences in culture? how do we account for nuance when we make broad judgments?

and also: who do we really hold responsible for this? who do we think is at fault and what do we want them to do?

i feel like we could all benefit from some perspective here.

9. back to you (has questions for you in it)

so like, is it fun? how’d you get the position? how long do you work typically?

do you talk directly with higher-ups or whatever? do you have coworkers?

do you have to read through lots of fic yourself or does stuff get reported to you and then you look at it?

what other stuff do you report content for, aside from abusive content? like i read a post saying people shouldn’t be advertising their paypal or whatever on their a*3, do you nip stuff like that in the bud or is that something else?

what if it’s just mistagged, presumably by human error not by a legitimate abuse of the system, what do you do? do you tag it for them or do you reach out to them and tell them to fix it or what?

who decided on the color scheme? can there be a skin that’s orange and avocado green? can you pass that on for whoever does the colors? i think i’d spend more time on any particular website if the color scheme was a nice, desaturated orange and avocado green.

nice

#haters #who is this even #anyway again PLEASE DO NOT REBLOG THIS

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thecoleopterawithana · 5 years ago

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The Beatles and Dysfunctional Family Roles

Humans are social animals. When one lives in a group, each has a part to play. A role in this great play that is life, if you will.

All the worlds a stage,

And all the men and women merely players:

They have their exits, and their entrances;

And one man in his time plays many parts.

— William Shakespeare, As You Like It, Act II, Scene VII.

These sets of adequate behaviors are determined by the expectations of everyone around us, eventually becoming internalized through socialization. This means that the role we play is also context-dependent, and should change and adapt according to different times and spaces. It’s only when we become too fixed in certain dynamics that there is a problem.

Humans are master profilers. We have to quickly know what role our scene-partner is playing, after all. Furthermore, we also have a tendency to generalize. To forget that these are merely parts and others and ourselves are much more complex than the character they present at any given situation.

Thus, humans are masters at creating tags (long before the ‘hash’ prefixed it). Each Beatle member has been attributed, from their very first days under the public gaze, a very specific part: the Smart One, the Cute One, the Quiet One and the Funny One.

Like most labels, they are informative to a degree, which becomes limiting when one assumes that’s all there is to know. And even though there were infinitely complex individuals behind these fan nicknames, it’s curious how even within the band, in the privacy of their hotel rooms, these four young men fell into a very structured dynamic with very specific roles (which with time became stifling).

But it is wise to remember that the Beatles were more than a band.

They were a family.

This was something that they always identified with very keenly. They were brothers. (Of course, on top of this dynamic, John and Paul had the added complexity of also feeling like they were married.)

But for now, let’s look upon them as the children that they were: four brothers in one big adventure. It probably pays to follow their self-denomination and examine what part each member played in this dynamic. And because I used the word “dysfunctional” in the title, let’s first establish what it entails.

One of the main distinguishers between healthy and dysfunctional family dynamics is just how fixed these structures are.

In any given family the individual members fulfill and act out roles….

While in healthy, functional families these roles are generally fluid, change over time, in different circumstances, at particular events and are age and developmental appropriate, in dysfunctional families the roles are much more rigid.

In a healthy family members are integrated and various parts may surface at different times at no threat to the family system. In functional families the roles are interdependent.

The various roles in a healthy family are parts of every person….

Healthy families in general retain functionality when individual members ‘leave’ the family system through ‘moving out’, starting their own families or even death of an individual member.

By contrast,

In dysfunctional families the roles are almost a form of continuity or stability of the family system, stifling development….

Members must submerge parts of their personalities and take on a role so they are less of a threat to the family system that must be kept in place. In the case of a dysfunctional family all the roles are characterized as co-dependent.

In a dysfunctional family each member takes a role, and/or is assigned one, to make up the whole which is the family. Rather than a family of fully (yet age appropriate) persons, the family system gears to create just one: the family itself.

In dysfunctional family systems when an individual member leaves, this creates an (almost) irreparable hole in the existing system… This is why dysfunctional families are often so enmeshed. The system needs all members to function as a unit, not as a community.

— “Healthy vs Dysfunctional Family Roles”, Out Of The Storm.

It displeases me to dish out a diagnosis, for the line between healthy and unhealthy is often quite subtle.

But it’s hard not to argue that at times the Beatles tended towards the rigidity of a dysfunctional family. They have the resulting tensions and fallouts to prove it. Just the simple premise that the stability and continued existence of the family unit (the band) was more important than the wants and needs of its individual members is a sign of how prone they were to imprisoning themselves for the good of the whole.

In 1981 Weischeider identified five archetypes that children are assigned, originally relating to her work with alcoholic families. Since then the terms have evolved to cover other types of dysfunctional family systems: including the presence of other kinds of addictions; untreated mental health illnesses; sexual or physical abuse; fundamentalism or rigid dogmatism.

But what are these Dysfunctional Family Roles?

The Golden Child (The Hero)

This family member devotes his/her time and attention to making the family look “normal” and without problems. The Hero can mask or make up for the dysfunctional home life. Over-responsible and self-sufficient they are often perfectionistic, are over-achievers and look very good - on the outside. The parents look to this child to prove that they are good parents and good people. Their goal in life is to achieve “success”, however that has been defined by the family; they must always be “brave and strong”. The Hero’s compulsive drive to succeed may in turn lead to stress-related illness, and compulsive over-working. They learn at a young age to suffer the sadness of a parent and become a surrogate spouse or confidante.

While The Hero saves the family by being perfect and making it look good, the golden child may struggle to live up to his status. In a Narcissistic Personality Disordered (NPD) family, The Golden Child is the recipient of all the narcissistic parent’s positive projections, and is their favourite child. The golden child is usually victim of emotional and (covert) sexual abuse by the narcissistic parent. (S)He is also witness to, and sometimes takes part in, the other children’s abuse. Many specialists believe that witnessing your sibling’s abuse is as damaging as receiving it.

The Caretaker (The Enabler)

Another descriptive word for this type of codependent family role is “the Caretaker.“ This is also a role a child can fulfill, especially in case the other parent/caregiver has not resigned to enable the dysfunctional Addicted or Narcissististic parent. The Enabler feels like they have to keep the family going. Over and over they take on the addict’s problems and responsibilities.

The Enabler is the martyr of the family, and often supports not only the dysfunctional behavior, but also a prime enforcer of the codependent roles that everyone else is required to play.

You often see this role in a family where the functioning of (one of) the parent(s) is impaired in some way, i.e. mental illness, substance abuse or a medical disability. This child will attempt function as the surrogate parent. They worry and fret, nurture and support, listen and console. Their entire concept of their self is based on what they can provide for others.

The Enabler protects and takes care of the problem parent so that the parent is never allowed to experience the negative consequences of his or her actions. The Enabler feels he or she must act this way, because otherwise, the family might not survive. The paradoxical thing about The Enabler’s behavior is that by preventing the dysfunctional parent’s crisis, he or she also prevents the painful, corrective experience that crisis brings, which may be the only thing that makes the dysfunctional parent stop the downward spiral of addiction…

[Note: The Caretaker is often the “intra-familial counterpart” of The Golden Child, which can overlap and be played by the same person.]

The Problematic Child (The Scapegoat)

The Scapegoat is the “problem child” or the “trouble maker”. This family member always seems defiant, hostile and angry. The Scapegoat is the truth-teller of the family and will often verbalize or act out the "problem” which the family is attempting to cover up or deny. This individual’s behavior warrants negative attention and is a great distraction for everyone from the real issues at hand. The Scapegoat usually has trouble in school because they get attention the only way they know how - which is negatively. They can be very clever, may develop social skills within his or her circle of peers, and become leaders in their own peer groups. But often the groups that they choose to associate with are groups that do not present healthy relationships. The relationships he or she experiences tend to be shallow and inauthentic.

The Scapegoat is sacrificed for the family. The Scapegoat will be the “identified patient”. Scapegoats come in many different flavors, but two common ones are: 1) the picked, weak or sick child; or, 2) the angry, rebellious problem child who is constantly getting into conflicts. They are often self-destructive, cynical and even mean.

In an NPD family, The Scapegoat, or no good child is the recipient of the narcissist’s negative projections. They can never do anything right. The name ‘rebel’ implies that the child has chosen this role, which is debatable. The Scapegoat is usually victim of emotional and physical abuse by the narcissistic parent.

The Quiet One (The Lost Child)

The Lost Child is usually known as “the quiet one” or “the dreamer”. The Lost Child is the invisible child. They try to escape the family situation by making themselves very small and quiet. (S)He stays out of the way of problems and spends a lot of time alone. The purpose of having a lost child in the family is similar to that of The Hero. Because The Lost Child is rarely in trouble, the family can say, “He’s a good kid. Everything seems fine in his life, so things can’t be too bad in the family.”

This child avoids interactions with other family members and basically disappears. They become loners, or are very shy. The Lost Child seeks the privacy of his or her own company to be away from the family chaos. Because they don’t interact, they never have a chance to develop important social and communication skills. The Lost Child often has poor communication skills, difficulties with intimacy and in forming relationships. They deny that they have any feelings and "don’t bother getting upset.” They deal with reality by withdrawing from it.

In an NPD family, The Lost Child just doesn’t seem to matter to the narcissist, and avoids conflict by keeping a low profile. They are not perceived as a threat or a good source of supply, but they are usually victim of neglect and emotional abuse.

The Clown (The Family Mascot)

The goal of The Family Mascot is to break the tension and lighten the mood with humor or antics. (S)He is usually “the cute one.” This child feels powerless in the dynamics which are going on in the family and tries to interrupt tension, anger, conflict, violence or other unpleasant situations within the family by being the court jester. The Mascot seeks to be the center of attention in the family, often entertaining the family and making everyone feel better through his or her comedy. They may also use humor to communicate and to confront the family dysfunction, rather than address it directly. They also use humor to communicate repressed emotions in the family such as anger, grief, hostility or fear. This behavior is lighthearted and hilarious, just what a family twisted in pain needs — but the mascot’s clowning is not repairing the emotional wounds, only providing temporary balm. The rest of the family may actually try to protect their “class clown”. The Mascot is often busy-busy-busy. They become anxious or depressed when things aren’t in constant motion. The Mascot commonly has difficulty concentrating and focusing in a sustained way on learning, and this makes school or work difficult. (Hence they also referred to as “The Slacker”.)

They often have case loads rather than friendships - and get involved in abusive relationships in an attempt to “save” the other person. They have very low self-worth and feel a lot of guilt that they work very hard to overcome by being really “nice” (i.e. people pleasing, classically codependent) people.

— “Dysfunctional Family Roles”, Out Of The Storm.

Since then a sixth type is sometimes also considered:

The Manipulator (The Mastermind)

The Manipulator takes their experience of their hostile environment and uses it to their advantage. They capitalise on the family situation and play family members against each other. This individual will quickly become adept at recognising what the actual problem the parent suffers from. They’ll understand which one is the enabler, and which one is co-dependent.

Manipulators exercise this knowledge to control and influence family members. They’ll do it covertly, not directly. They never want to get caught. Gradually, they’ll learn what triggers the parents and their siblings and they will take shots at all of them…

Manipulators can turn into bullies, those who harass people and get a kick out of it. They are unable to form healthy relationships. If they are in one, they will be controlling with a partner who has low self-esteem.

They will only think of themselves and what they can get out of others. They feel that the world owes them for their lousy childhood and will go about getting it by any means.

— “6 Dysfunctional Family Roles People Take without Even Knowing”, Learning Mind.

It is not always clear-cut what role each member has been assigned, and the positions can change over time (normally as a result of the loss of one of the members). But people are inherently complex and multi-faceted. They have within themselves bits of each archetype. The unhealthy factor derives from the attempt to fit and perform one single one-dimensional role.

For example, John clearly acted up The Problematic Child publicly, but privately he also certainly had elements of The Dreamer; not only on the sense of being imaginative and introspective but also in his tendency for escapism and withdrawing from reality.

Also, when the fear and pain affected him the most, he became desperate enough to play The Manipulator. He did this from early on, but with the help of Yoko (who I now think, as a result of her particularly difficult childhood, became a “primary” Mastermind herself) he became even more effective at it from 1968 onwards.

JOHN: I did a job on this banker that we were using, and on a few other people, and on the Beatles.

Q: What?

JOHN: How do you describe the job? You know, you know, my job – I maneuver people. That’s what leaders do, and I sit and make situations which will be of benefit to me with other people, it’s as simple as that. I had to do a job to get Allen in Apple. I did a job, so did Yoko.

YOKO: You do it with instinct, you know.

JOHN: Oh. God, Yoko, don’t say that. Maneuvering is what it is, let’s not be coy about it. It is a deliberate and thought-out maneuver of how to get a situation the way we want it. That’s how life’s about, isn’t it, is it not?

— The “Lennon Remembers” interview, by Jann Wenner for Rolling Stone (8 December 1970).

In regards to the occupied archetypes, often one member has to fulfill more than one role. But because the structures are incredibly rigid, they can only perform one role at a time. This can cause even more internal stress as a result of not knowing which facet is being demanded of them at any given time.

Paul seems to have needed to balance being both The Golden Child and The Caretaker. This could explain his apparently parental role, alternatively characterized as masculine (Paul being a God/Father-Figure) or feminine (Paul being called the mother of the group). The gendered side of it relates more to society’s associations with these responsibilities (being “successful, brave and strong” = father’s job; taking care, “worry and fret, nurture and support, listen and console” = mother’s job), than I believe was ever consciously played by Paul himself. He just had a responsibility void to fill and he did it.

It is also crucial to understand that these dysfunctional dynamics are “transgenerational.” Meaning that “individuals reared in dysfunctional families tend to gravitate toward 'dysfunctional’ partners and create dysfunctional families of their own.”

This leads me to believe that it’s very likely that the Beatles replicated a dysfunctional family when they got together because they each individually came from dysfunctional families of their own. Or rather, one of the reasons why the Beatles got together in the first place was because they each came from dysfunctional families of their own, and thus were attracted to individuals who shared these patterns.

I loved my association with John and Paul because I had something in me which I recognized in them—which they must have or could have recognized in me, which is why we ended up together. And it was just great knowing there’s somebody else in life who feels similar to yourself.

— George Harrison, interviewed by Alan Freeman for BBC Radio 1 (6 December 1974).

Maybe this is why John, Paul, and George were such a strong front-line on their own but needed Ringo, and not Pete Best, to finally complete the set.

It may also be another factor as to why John and Paul bonded so tightly, as Paul knew how to “handle” John and John wanted to be taken care of. (There is of course much more to the dynamic; this is just one of its possible facets, which was at risk of becoming draining and a source of tension when to fixed in this co-dependent state.)

Again, it is hard to make an objective evaluation of the dysfunctionality of the Beatles’ biological families. There wasn’t so much awareness of the unhealthiness of some dynamics at the time, so many of the participants may even lack the words (or the will) to describe them. But the symptoms seem to be present. I believe that alone makes it worth looking for a potential cause.

Also, these attempts to create fixed dynamics for the stability of the family unit all seem to happen as a response to the inner inconstancy and instability of the forces governing the unit itself (normally the dysfunctional parental figure, but maybe can be extended to the life-circumstances themselves). For example, could severe financial instability be enough to create these patterns?

Either way, we can find in the Beatles’ childhood sources of dysfunction easily enough.

One that makes a common and expected appearance, in a liquor-filled Liddypool, was drinking, particularly in Ringo and John’s childhoods.

Ringo

Johnny Starkey would play a crucial role in the raising of his grandson, and by all accounts he was a full-on “wacker” (a much-used word for working-class Liverpool men and boys), being a drinker, laborer, gambler and brawler.

— On Ringo’s grandfather, John Starkey. In Mark Lewishon’s Tune In (2013).

Elsie, Harry, relations, friends and workmates would drink and sing through the evening until closing time, and then, well bevvied, tumble into Elsie and Richy’s tiny terraced house where the party carried on—more singing, more drinking, more swearing, Johnny and Annie Starkey on banjo and mandolin, the steam rising ever higher into the night… The boy would always remember singing at home “not in front of a coal fire but in front of a bottle of gin and a large bottle of brown,” emphasizing the point that, as many children have experienced down the years, the bond of good-time music and booze was significant. Years later, he would admit, “My parents were alcoholics and I didn’t realize it.”

— On Ringo’s childhood. In Mark Lewishon’s Tune In (2013).

Dingle people actually had much in common with cockneys. Both were poor and working-class, both were predominantly English/Protestant, both suffered terrible bombing at the hands of the Germans, and both liked a good drink and boozy sing-song. One big reason Harry fit right at home in Liverpool 8 was because he liked nothing better than to go to the pubs and clubs, get a few ales inside him and sing.

— On Ringo’s stepfather, Harry Arthur Graves. In Mark Lewishon’s Tune In (2013).

Richy took the job because he still harbored hopes of joining the merchant navy… But the job also had another attraction: booze. Richy was now a confirmed drinker. Regular exposure to alcohol in and around the home was an influence, and it was what many boys did anyway, swear and smoke and drink at the first opportunity.

— On Ringo’s second job at the tramp steamer St. Tudno. In Mark Lewishon’s Tune In (2013).

John

He was an ale drinker, but once he started drinking he’d drink anything. If there was a bottle, he’d stay with it.

— On John’s father, Alf Lennon, as told by close friend Billy Hall. In Mark Lewishon’s Tune In (2013).

Alf Lennon didn’t begin the new decade very well either. The Dominion Monarch docked at Tilbury before Christmas, after which he tomfooled around London with a few shipmates, waiting for it to sail again in mid-January. Alcohol was surely a fixture, opening time to closing with bottles between sessions…

— On John’s father, Alf Lennon, as told by close friend Billy Hall. In Mark Lewishon’s Tune In (2013).

John’s time with Julia was also complicated by the presence of “Twitchy.” His relationship with Bobby Dykins was not all bad but neither was it particularly rosy. Pete Shotton isn’t the only person to recall him as an alcoholic…

— On John’s “step-father”, Bobby “Twitchy” Dykins. In Mark Lewishon’s Tune In (2013).

John, of course, had the added factors of possible mental illness in his mother, and the abandonment by his parental figures (Alf, Julia and Uncle George).

Paul

Paul also had the loss of his mother and all the upheaval it brought. I’ve talked before how I thought the suddenness of Mary’s death and Jim’s inability to be visibly strong enough in the face of it, made Paul feel like he could not rely on the people around him to always be there, and that he needed to protect himself and be independent.

But now I wonder if there weren’t other possible sources of instability, that made him feel the need to take on responsibility even more strongly:

Though given such a strong foundation, Jim could not be spared from a further vice. For Jim McCartney was something of a gambling man, fond of betting on the horses. He once got badly into debt, though for reasons that at least had motives other than selfishness; his mother, Florence McCartney, who was capable of coupling a strongly matriarchal role with a fondness for humor of a most prurient nature, was badly in need of a holiday.

— In Chris Salewicz’s McCartney (1986).

Jim McCartney also enjoyed a drink, but would never permit himself to become so intoxicated that he was no longer in control of his own actions. That he should always maintain his self-respect was one of the principles of his existence, and one which he later passed on to his sons.

— In Chris Salewicz’s McCartney (1986).

The McCartneys had money worries. After the war, Jim’s job at the armaments factory ended and he returned to the cotton exchange, as a salesman for A. Hannay and company, but the war had changed everything; the cotton market was in chaos, and lie was lucky to bring home £6 a week. It meant that Mary also had to work and it was always a cause of slight embarrassment that she earned a higher wage than he.

— In Barry Miles’ Many Years From Now (1997).

Yet the education that Jim McCartney offered his sons was not always conventional; they couldn’t help but notice his inability to pass a slot machine without putting a coin in it, or the way he would give quadruple measures of undiluted alcohol to guests. Later, when the boys were in their teens, he would show them how to get away with drinking underage in pubs, slipping them the cash to buy rounds of drinks.

— In Chris Salewicz’s McCartney (1986).

Mum was a working nurse. There wasn’t a lot of money around – and she was half the family pay packet. My reaction was: ‘How are we going to get by without her money?’ When I think back on it, I think, ‘Oh God, what? Did I really say that?’ It was a terrible logical thought which was preceded by the normal feelings of grief. It was very tough to take.

— Paul McCartney, in Ray Coleman’s McCartney: Yesterday & Today (1996).

The boys went to stay with Jim’s brother Joe and his wife Joan, while friends and relatives tried to calm their distraught father, whose first thought was to join his wife.

— In Barry Miles’ Many Years From Now (1997).

A Hard Day’s Night had its London premiere on July 6, 1964, the day before Jim McCartney’s birthday… Then, as midnight chimed, Paul drew his father over to him. “Happy birthday, Dad,” he said, and produced a painting—perhaps the one mentioned to the Telegraph magazine—of a horse, which he handed to Jim.

“Thank you, son. Very nice,” muttered the somewhat confused father. (Later he was to tell Thomas Gaule about it. “I thought, ‘It’s very nice, but couldn’t he have done a bit better than that?’”). Then Paul revealed that this was a painting of the £1,050 racehorse, Drake’s Drum, that he had bought his father.

“You silly bugger,” was Jim’s joyous reply.

“My father likes a flutter [bet],” Paul said. “He’s one of the world’s greatest armchair punters.”

— In Chris Salewicz’s McCartney (1986).

Again, it’s hard to definitely label a situation problematic, but the impact it has on a developing person is more relative to how the person experienced it than to the experience itself. But perhaps Jim’s gambling habits, the family’s financial insecurity, Mary’s death, Jim’s consequent suicidal depression and/or possible self-medication with alcohol, all lead to the creation of an unreliable enough parent that the son had to occupy such roles.

Also, it would be remiss not to mention the use of bodily punishment during their upbringing, which made enough of an impression on the McCartney brother’s that Mike would mention it often and Paul would never speak of it; until the early 2000′s, when he remarked how his father hit him across the face at 16/17 and he finally stood up to him and dared Jim to do it again. (I am getting ready a post specifically on it, so I hope to explore this subject further there.)

George

George’s situation is a bit harder to tell. He seemed to be the one most aware and most averse to his title as The Quiet One. Maybe it’s because he felt it was ill-fitted. He wasn’t the quiet one after all, among his own family:

I found Harry reticent and quiet; Lou was loud, vivacious, not shy at all—there wouldn’t be silence in the room when she was there—and George was bubbly like his mum. They all bounced off each other and would do anything for anyone, and they all had a wonderful sense of humor, George especially. I threw a strop one day and threatened to walk to Budleigh Salterton. I stayed away a bit but all I really did was go to the loo and kill some time before coming back. After that, whenever George went to the loo he’d say, “I’m just off to Budleigh Salterton…”

— Jenny Brewers, a family friend. In Mark Lewishon’s Tune In (2013).

But maybe the silence was meant to be read as stoicism in his more public persona:

George was cool. He dressed as an individual and often to shock, to goad reactions—usually admiration from his peers and dismay from adults. He could be quiet, and sometimes grumpy, but he was always honest and never intimidated or afraid, standing up for himself verbally and physically. “He was cocky,” Paul would say, admiringly. “He had a great sense of himself. He wasn’t cowed by anything.”

— In Mark Lewishon’s Tune In (2013).

Whatever it was, George fit right in with the rest of them and easily slipped into his role, even if he was also the first to overtly buck against it. He clearly wanted to expand beyond these parts in a play they had created within the Beatles, these fixed dynamics for the greater good of the band, which he now felt stifled by:

Q: What was the conflict with Paul? I don’t understand.

GEORGE: It’s just a thing like, you know, he’d written all these songs for years and stuff, and Paul and I went to school together. I got the feeling that, you know, everybody changes and sometimes people don’t want other people to change, or even if you do change they won’t accept that you’ve changed. And they keep in their mind some other image of you, you know. Gandhi said, 'Create and preserve the image of your choice.’ And so different people have different images of their friends or people they see.

— George Harrison, interviewed by a New York City radio station (25 April 1970).

Perhaps the Beatles, the family unit, needed to collapse in order to free its members of the fixed dynamics they had built the band upon. Maybe it was time to grow and evolve beyond the images of the people they were when they met as teenagers. And because they were different, but their images of each other often didn’t match, there was tension.

Still, I don’t think this automatically means that it was impossible for them to ever be good friends again, work together again or even reform. Everything is possible if one just chooses so.

It would certainly be different. It would not be the same. But that would be good.

[This post was born out of conversations with the wonderful @ljblueteak and is an exploration of the concept introduced by Michael Gerber in the follow-up discussion to the Hey Dullblog entry “John and Paul, Friends and Rivals”.]

#We were a family #the beatles were just four guys that loved each other #johnny #macca #geo #ritchie #jim mccartney #mike mccartney #Alfred Lennon #introduction #elision #yoko ono #allen klein #meta #my stuff

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ijustwant2write · 7 years ago

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Salt 'n' Pepper-Tony Stark x Reader One Shot

(GIF credit to owner)

Masterlist

(A/N: This is set just after the first Avengers film, so we still have JARVIS as an android and everyone is happy. Also, Tony and Pepper aren’t a thing, sorry Pepperony shippers.)

Summary: Tony can get so busy managing his company and being Iron Man that he sometimes forgets about his partner (Y/N). As she sees how close he becomes with Pepper Potts, she can’t help the rising jealousy consume her, making her a very unhappy woman indeed.

Characters: Tony Stark x Reader, Pepper Potts x Reader (sort of enemies?), Bruce Banner x Reader (platonic)

Meanings: (Y/N)= Your name (Y/L/N)= Your last name

Warnings:Bad words against Pepper, sad, fighting

*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

“JARVIS, where is Tony?” I asked the android as I exited my shared bedroom with my partner.

He hadn’t come back to bed that night and I had a feeling I knew where he was.

“Mr Stark is currently in his lab, Miss (Y/L/N).” he replied.

“Has he eaten anything?”

“Mr Stark has only consumed an alarming amount of coffee.”

I sighed.“Thanks JARVIS.” Of course he hadn’t eaten. He never worried about himself, his brain was taken over with science. Stopping by the kitchen, I grabbed a glass of orange juice before making a bowl of cereal. My mind did think about making him some pancakes but he needed something relatively healthy. Carrying it down to the lab I knew what sort of mood he was going to be in. He would just want to get on with his work, not be bothered with anything or anyone else.

It was hard loving him though I wouldn’t ever change it. We met at a party (surprise, surprise), I had tagged along with a friend, it was was for some sort of science convention; we bumped into each other and of course I knew who he was. We had talked the whole night, he too wasn’t the most enthusiastic about the event. One thing led to another and then we ended up becoming a couple. Unfortunately that did mean that paparazzi and journalists were following my every move. I was introduced to a whole new world, not only with the media but with his superhero side. I was an easy target for his enemies, he knew that and was so hesitant to announce us. However it accidentally slipped out after the battle of New York where he almost died; I couldn’t help but dote on him afterwards, mistakingly showing off PDA, but what was done was done. He was fighting aliens and risked his life for the human race, there was no way I wasn’t not going to show my affection.

When I arrived to the lab, the doors were locked which meant he didn’t want to be disturbed. That didn’t mean anything to me anymore.

“Tony?” I knocked on the glass door with my foot.

“Who is it?” he called out.

“(Y/N). Can you please let me in? I have food.” The doors slid open and I hopped in as if they would quickly trap me inside them. I found him standing at a desk which had tools laid about, he was tinkering with a circuit board.

“When you said food I thought you meant something interesting, not slop.” he commented as he looked up at me.

I chuckled.“It’s not slop. This is better than nothing. Come on, put your stuff down and eat.”

I took his arm, dragging him towards a table free of any technology, sitting him down and kissing his cheek. He whined like a child, only making me laugh more. Tony stared at it, not moving an inch.

“You know, you haven’t even come to bed.”

“I know.” he started to drink the orange juice. At least he was having something.

“I miss you. Are you working on something big?”

“Just upgrading the suits. Trying out a few new things on them. Everything is damaged after the fight though.”

“I can imagine.” Tony looked so tired. S.H.I.E.L.D just swooped in and took over, dumping the whole alien attack on the team. What with him almost dying things hadn’t got any easier. He would have nightmares constantly which meant he tried to keep himself awake, he was always always trying to improve the Iron Man suits as a distraction from everything. It was going to take time for him to get back to normal.

“Morning Mr Stark.” a voice came from the entrance of the lab.

I internally groaned. Pepper Potts, the CEO of Stark industries and former assistant to Tony had just walked through that door. I wanted to get along with her, I really did, but after I saw how she acted around Tony I couldn’t fathom it. Always flirting and constantly around him; I knew that they had to be together quite a lot of the time seeing as she too ran the company but she didn’t have to be so flirty with him.

“Oh, Miss (Y/L/N), I did not see you there.” she greeted almost rudely as she placed a bag of McDonald’s breakfast in front of Tony.

I didn’t miss her hand stroking the back of his as she passed the bag. Tony disregarded the food I brought, digging into the fast food. He must have seen the hurt in my face before he started to explain.

“I asked her to bring it.”

“But I made you cereal.”

“Yeah and I appreciate that, but I need this instead. She was passing one as she came here.”

“Speaking of,” Pepper pulled out a tablet from her bag, tapping away,“you have people to see and things to sign.”

He gathered up his food.“Nope, I’m out.”

“Tony-”

“I’m going out and by that I mean staying in.”

I interrupted.“Tony you need to do these things. If you keep putting it off it’ll just build up. Maybe it will be good to get out.”

“She’s right Tony.” Pepper added, my eyes rolling.

He bit into his breakfast burger, contemplating it.“Neither of you are gonna give up, huh?”

Both of us shook out heads. Tony sighed after swallowing, turning away for a brief second.

“Fine. Seems like it’s important.”

Pepper smiled.“Great. Well I’ll arrange everything to be transferred to the afternoon, you can rest up and get cleaned up-”

“No. Leave it as it is.”

“Ok, your first appointment is in two hours. I’ll uh, leave you guys alone.” she was hesitant to go, probably thinking I would instead, it was evident in her face but she did so anyway.

Tony munched on his breakfast, clearly enjoying it. I didn’t want to mention anything about how uncomfortable to was with Pepper, he had enough on his mind already. I trusted him not to do anything, even if she advanced; though I prayed she wouldn’t either to maintain a professional relationship with her boss.

“I’m sorry about the breakfast.” Tony suddenly said, offering me a bite of his burger. I knew he was trying to hunt about Pepper.

I smiled, taking it from him.“It’s ok.”

“Didn’t want to bother you. You looked peaceful in your sleep.”

My eyebrows furrowed in confusion.“Wait, so you did come back to the room?”

“Yeah, but then I had stuff to do.”

I grabbed one of his hands.“I wouldn’t care if you woke me you know. It would be kinda nice to see you once in a while.”

He squeezed it back.“Sorry, just keeping myself busy.”

“I know that’s how you cope. Could you just come to bed tonight? Please? Just tonight and I won’t nag anymore.”

He chuckled.“Course.”

*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

Tony and Pepper had left for the meetings now and I was left with nothing to do. I didn’t work, I used to before dating Tony. The job I used to have wasn’t a good pay, I was living off bare minimum really. Although I wasn’t a particular fan of work (based on past experience, I wasn’t a brat) it was common knowledge that you had to work to get money. Tony saw how unhappy I was, lending me money whenever I needed it until he suggested that I move in with him and quit my job. Never had I said yes quicker.

After being together for a couple of years, he started to trust me with the money by myself. Because I wasn’t working, I decided that charity work would suffice. Tony was charitable himself meaning it wasn’t a problem with him. However, there were no events coming up that needed to be planned so I was stuck in the tower. I had already worked out that morning, watched tv and even attempted cooking (I wasn’t very skilled in the kitchen). I could have gone out but I didn’t want to deal with paparazzi and all of my friends were working.

Heading into the kitchen to grab a snack, someone was already in there. I recognised the lab cost and dark, wavy hair.

“Hey Bruce.” I greeted walking towards him.

“Oh, hi.” he sent me a small smile.

“What you doing up here? Aren’t you in the labs all day?”

“Well, people do need nourishment.”

“True, could have asked one of your workers to get it though.”

“I’d prefer to do it myself. Not good with all these people get.”

“Well you do what you want Bruce.” I grabbed a bag of crisps about to walk away before he stopped me.

“Uh, a-are things ok with you and Tony?”

Why was he asking me this?

“Um, yeah. Why?”

“He asked me to keep an eye on you which sort of led me to believe that you had some sort of argument?”

“No, no arguments….” my sentence trailed off as I realised why Tony was curious.“It’s because of Pepper.”

“Pepper? Pepper Potts?”

“Yeah, she��I don’t really like her being around Tony, she can get a bit flirty.”

“Oh. Have you talked to him about it?”

“I can’t right now. He’s so stressed from everything that has happened. He’s not sleeping or eating well, his social skills are out the window; I just want him back.”

“I know I’m not an expert on love and relationships but I think it would be wise to speak with him. Maybe he’ll see how you’re feeling and spend time with you, it could make him feel better too.”

Bruce’s words played on and on in my head throughout the day. He was right. It had to be said soon. I just didn’t want Tony getting any worse; his PTSD had got worse, he didn’t need my whining on top of it.

“What are you thinking about?” Tony’s voice made me jump. After a long debate with myself on what to do, I had found myself in the lab. Perhaps it was because Tony was always there and this was one of the only ways I felt close to him.

“Can…can I talk to you?” I stuttered, hating that my nerves were getting the better of me.

“Is this about Pepper or the neglect?” he asked, though I wasn’t sure if it was supposed to be mean.

I was caught of guard.“Tony…that’s not how I want to word it.”

He loosened his tie as he stood nearer.“But that’s the word for it.”

“I’m just not a fan of her, she’s always trying to push my buttons by flirting with you.”

“It’s her nature.”

“No it’s not!” my voice raised.

He seemed taken back.

I groaned, pusing the chair back, making it screech against the floor.“I don’t want to argue. I want my Tony back even though I know you’re dealing with things but so is everyone else. You know what, just get Pepper to live here with you cause she might as well.”

“Don’t make this about her-”

“Why not Tony? She’s always here, let’s decorate one of the rooms for her. Better yet, she can take my place!”

His fist slammed onto the table.“I am not going to argue about this! We trust each other, we love each other! Have I ever once cheated or given you a reason to believe so?”

I could feel myself start to cry.“No.”

“So I don’t understand this. You know that Pepper has been a loyal, valuable member of my team, I wouldn’t just throw her away. I will talk to her about this but never have I reciprocated her feelings.”

My voice had turned to a whisper.“I know…I know that.” I could feel my knees buckling, having to lean against the wall.“I just want to help you and I hate that she has so much more in common with you. I have so much jealousy built up in me because of it, in ashamed of that. But I really want to help you.”

His hands pulled me towards him into a hug.“You do help me. It would help me even more if you just stayed happy.”

“You shouldn’t be comforting me, it needs to be the other way around.” I sobbed, clutching onto his suit.“I want to help.”

“Then stop crying and hug me back. Stop worrying about Pepper, just be happy, for me.”

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yourrainycollectorhologram-blog · 6 years ago

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Why quotes from Insurance advisers and comparison sites are significantly different in price?

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I've contacted two advisers regarding life insurance and critical illness cover. Both of them suggest difference insurers and their price is significantly different than the comparison sites. Do they get commission from insurers companies depending on their suggestions?

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Anyone think its ridiculous I had to pay like 430 for car insurance this month. I've been driving for over a year and I know it doesn't lower till your like mid TWENTIES! But it's bullshit , my car is old and I haven't gotten a ticket or gotten into an accident so I don't understand. What the f**k is a renewal anyway! And I hear it's more for guys my age even though it's pretty much a joke and a fact that girls are shittier drivers though you get the pinky dick guys with the supposedly fast cars that crash them trying to be a badass. Car Insurance is ran by the rich who can care less about people's safety and they are able to bend the laws to they're benefit so they make more profit. Revolting isn't it?""

Car insurance for young drivers UK?

im 17 atm and passed my test last week ive been looking at car insurance for a cars but the insurance is really expensive for a 17 year old what are cheap car insurances for young drivers in the uk?

Would vehicle wrapping my car a different colour effect insurance cost much / at all?

Hi I work at a vehicle graphics / signs company Weve had an idea that my car would look amazing in a different colour and we can get the wrapping material in cheap. So it will be about 40x cheaper than spraying. I have also seen a carbon wrapped golf the other day and it was perfect. Only question is if i was to make the colour change ( car doesnt usually come in this colour) would it make the insurance cost go up much or at all? Also same with alloy wheel spraying? Many Thanks

How do i get health insurance?

i work at shoprite and i know that we get medical/dental benefits after one year but i just cannot wait that long i need some care like right now ! so how do i get health insurance, where do i go? who do i call ? im lost -__- help me out please! all answers welcomed and appreciated.""

Auto Insurance Help....?

I need insurance on my car, and i don't fully own it, my name is on the title and i finaced it so i have a lien on it....i'm only 20 so full coverage is pretty expensive! would it be possible for my dad to be able to add me to his policy?""

How will my first speeding ticket in Florida effect my insurance?

Ok I'm 19 and just got my first speeding ticket on the way to work today doing 9 miles over. So my question is how many points are added to your license for doing this much over and is there any way to avoid getting these points? If not, how will this affect my insurance? Is it going to skyrocket, even though this is my first speeding ticket ever?""

Which New York insurance is high?

I've heard New York insurance is high, but which one? Car, house, etc.? And why is it so high?""

""10 points! I'm 17, moved out, car insurance?""

Ok, so in 7 months i am moving out of my moms house and in with my boyfriends family for a year or two. ( My mom is aware of all of this btw) Anyways, allstate is throwing me off my moms car insurance due to the fact she will live in a seperate state and away from me. The time i move and the time i turn 18 is a two month difference. I move in june my bday is in august. It's nearly impossible for me to find insurance qoutes because im not 18! I do't want to get emancipated it seems like a waste for 2 months difference, but if i do can i get insurance on my own? i will be sharing this car with another driver older the age of 18 but still cosidered a young driver. What are my options? I have to drive to get to work!""

Car insurance question.?

I am wanting to get a car at a dealership, and one of the papers they need is to show proof that I have car insurance on the car I have now. So here is the deal with the insurance, I am under my sisters policy, but my car is shown as she owns my car. Will this still work for the dealership? Technically I do have insurance under my car. Please any advice would help, thank you(:""

Is it necessary to buy rental car insurance even though i have my car insurance policy with me?

i have a car and have taken...if i take a rental car , then my auto insurance...""

""Now that my license has no points on it, can the car insurance cost be reduced?""

I am with Tesco Insurance, my license did have points on it when I got my car insured but no that I have lost the points, do I have to wait out the 12month contract or is there the possibility that it can be reduced? I am guessing I have to wait it out. Something like that must have been mentioned in the T&A.""

Need Car Insurance for one month?

Hey I need car insurance for one month only please help me thank you

Will i get any payouts on my car insurance?

hi there i had an accident back in december 2012 that was NOT my fault but did not declare any points om my licence when i took my insurance policy out, becaus this was not my fault will i still get payed out for my car or any compensation claims elsewhere to thatr accident""

How much is car insurance for a bugatti veyron?

Been priced out of insurance AGAIN!!?

Ok thought i would be getting a car, but kept on getting 6,000-8,000 quotes which is ridiculous. So then i thought o well lets leave the car alone for a few years. Found a fantastic bike that i tested for 1,500 LEXMOTO XTR S 125. Drum role please INSURANCE 2,000!!! people told me i was suppose to be getting 500 odd for insurance for a 125cc bike. i live in london :|. age:17""

Insurance costs for a 1999 ford mustang gt?

I am just wondering what the insurance cost would be for a 1999 ford mustang gt would be for a 17 year old male. I get a's and b's on my report cards. Also, would the insurance costs for a 1999 ish Ford Mustang base(not gt or cobra) be lower? Thanks, Alec""

Full Coverage Insurance for financed vehicles ?

If i get financed for a car, do i have to pay full insurance for that car ? I live in NY. If yes, any idea how much full coverage would be for an 2004 acura tl ?""

""How much, usually, is the insurance on one of those crossover suv's?""

i am an 18 yr old male and i am in the market for a new car. i just recently feel inlove with the mitsubishi outlander, mitsubishi endeavor, ford edge, jeep cherokee. i figured out all the prices and payments and everything, but i am not sure about how much the auto insurance will be... any help anybody?? thanks""

Homeowners insurance quotes?

is it true you have to pay upfront 1 year homeowners insurance when buying a home.

Can I get my car back from the impound using anothers insurance?

Recently my car was impounded due to no insurance - stupid I know - and now I can't retrieve it without insurance. The problem is the only way I can get insurance now is if I pay for a full year, can't afford that much so I have very few options now available, if any. What I want to know is can I insure myself using someone else's insurance and retrieve the car that way? Will the police and impound accept this type of insurance? And will I even be insured due to what happened? Because of what happened I now have 6 points so I realise it will be difficult to get insured. Thanks and hope someone can help. By the way this happened in the UK.""

Car Insurance 19 years old question?

I am planning on buying a car soon. I am 19 years old and I live with my parents. If the car is in my name, can the insurance be put in my parents name to make it cheaper? If not, what other options do I have? I've did some researching on quotes and I will have to pay like over $2000 every 6 months if its in my name but WAY less if its in theirs. All answers are appreciated.""

Does your insurance cover your new car purchase?

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Why quotes from Insurance advisers and comparison sites are significantly different in price?

What is the best website for cheap car insurance?

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I was in a car accident today. It was the other driver's fault she admitted to the police that she was doing 60+ on a 40, she slammed her brakes but she couldn't stop so she rear ended me and made me hit the car in front of me, anyways the car I hit was scratch less (go figure) but my cars rear and front bumper will need replacement her car was almost totaled. I have liability insurance (96 honda) and she has Full-cover I would just like to know what's going to happen now? I have never being in a car accident before Will my insurance go up (I'm 19)?? will her insurance pay my damages??""

Approximately how much does car insurance cost for a typical 18 year old female?

Buying car insurance?

I've got my driving test in September and thinking about buying a car if I pass. I'm just a bit confused about how to buy a car and car insurance. Do I need to look around for a car I like, get all the details of the car, buy insurance for that car, then actually buy the car, in that order? Also are new cars or older cars cheaper to insure? I think it's newer cars but I'm not sure. Also what is a good car for cheaper insurance. I've heard Ford and Vauxhall are good for cheap insurance. I've been on price comparison sites and it seems that even if I have pass plus and just third party cover 2k per year is a minimum :( Thanks.""

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What companies provide auto insurance for adult learners? I am an international student in Ohio. I am older than 21. I get a learner's permit recently and am now looking to buy auto insurance. I am independent and can not be added to other people's policy. I have been searching the Internet, including Yahoo! Answer, for one week to buy auto insurance for adult learners. It seems the majority say I have to be added to other people's policy. Some say I can do it by myself without giving further details. It seems that no insurance companies are willing to give me a quote considering my situation. GEICO is willing to give me a quote one month before I get my DL. Are there some companies that give adult learners' auto insurance? Thanks in advance.""

""How much, on average, is car insurance?""

How much, on average, is car insurance?""

Whats the average price of car insurance for a teen with a 97 jet ta ?

How much does car insurance cost for a 16 year old?

I drive a 98 Toyota Avalon, I heard ur grades affect the rates but I'm not a straight A student, I don't really do really well in school so you don't wanna know my grades. But how much would my parents have to pay for my insurance? We live in California""

""I heard that if you have good grades, your insurance rate will go down.?""

I'm about to get my permit this summer, but I have one F (I'm not a slacker, but I just couldn't handle the work) Anyway, my mom said that if I don't get this F up, I can't get insurance, cause nobody will insure me. Is this true? Also, another question... Do I only need insurance on a car, or do I need my own insurance or could I drive my mom's car legally (when I have my permit)?""

What Insurance Company is this?

I saw this commercial that had this college girl and this other guy saying how much its going to cost her breakdown car. She texted him, dude i'm a college student or something like that. Its an insurance company that covers both accidental insurance and car breakdown coverage. What company was this??""

Can I get some advice about car insurance?

My and my wife are both insured on our car (Fully Comp.) and we are now about to get another car due to our work situation. Would the following method be the most cost-effective way for us both to be covered ? 1) For me to be fully insured for one car and my wife fully insured for the other, allowing us both to drive each other's car if necessary ? I am currently the registered keeper of our current car and I am the policy holder for it as well. I would be driving the new one when I get it and my wife would take over driving the current one. Thanks in advance""

""Is $150/month too much for auto insurance. 21, female, full coverage?""

I signed up for Allstates full coverage insurance for my 2006 Toyota corolla. I'm 21, female, and clean driving record so far. Is 150 per month too expensive?""

Will my parents insurance go up if I received a speeding ticket and I am not on their insurance?

I'm 17 and I recently got pulled over by a Louisiana State Trooper for going 84mph in a 60mph speed zone. I was driving my mother's car and she is insured with State Farm but I am not on the policy. I know I can plea guilty and take a class to get it off of my record but I hope it doesn't affect their car insurance rates......

How much does will my insurance pay? My car was totalled?

My car was in a serious accident, and is irrepairable. The insurance company is coming down in a day or two to check out the car. I was no at fault, police are still looking for the guy at fault. However, my car is done. Will my insurance company give me the value of replacing a car like that, like if I were to buy one again, or would they give me the book value?""

What is the cheapest car insurance?

I'm young and living on my own so I really need car insurance thats good but reasonably priced.

Is there insurance for Antique Cars?

Hi, I have a 1971 chevrolet camaro. Wanted to ask if there was insurance for antique cars? I know i could just get liability for this car but i was wondering if i could get better coverage for my vehicle? Thanks.""

I have full coverage on my car insurance..i accidently dented my car and broke the window my self what i do?

i have full coverage on my car insurance ,,i accidently broke the driver side window and dented the door my self,,what should i do? tell the insurance that somebody else did it and have them fix it?..they supposed to right?""

How much would insurance cost on a 2015 Mustang 4-cylinder ecoboost?

Just wondering if anyone has an idea on how much insurance will cost. The insurance for the V6 model I know will be somewhere around $400-$500 a month which is obviously too much for me. I plan on putting a 3k down payment for the Mustang and finance for possibly 4-5years. I also plan on selling my current car for a little over 2.2k. I believe this will only be possible for me to do if the insurance is around $300 a month. The Ecoboost mustang is a 4 cylinder 2 door muscle car but with a turbo engine putting about 305HP. It gets more mpg than the V6 but is faster than the V6. Thank you for any answers and I know for now nothing is 100% true until I actually get a quote. Oh I also live in the LA County area as I know this will sadly most likely increase the insurance cost by 40%.

""Who is the best, but affordable car insurance out there ?""

Just bought a new vehicle and have state farm insurance. But with the new vehicle, my insurance went up.""

How much is teen car insurance?

Im 16 and get my license next month. my parents are asking i pay car insurance so im looking for a rough estimate of what it would cost if i have my own car or not. im a girl with straight As and I've never been in any legal trouble. thanks!

Why quotes from Insurance advisers and comparison sites are significantly different in price?

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/affordable-car-insurance-virginia-beach-katelyn-bolton-1/"

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profoundgardenertree-blog · 6 years ago

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BEST ANSWER: Try this site where you can compare quotes: : http://insureinfo.xyz/index.html?src=tumblr

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Cheap moped insurance company?

Got into a car wreck w/o insurance!?

The other day I accidently backed into this couple that have full coverage insurance. I believed everything was okay until an investigator called and left a message saying that my brother had cancelled my insurance. Therefore, I didn't have any insurance at the time of the accident. The person I hit did not get a ticket and I did not get a ticket. What is going to happen with this? Will I loose my lisence or will I have to pay for their car damages even though they have full coverage? If I call and get car insurance today, will it be effective for the accident?""

What is an insurance quote?

Can someone explain to me just what the heck an insurance quote is?

Is it cheaper to get on your parent's car insurance or have your own separate claim?

I will be purchasing car insurance really soon and comparing qoutes of different companies and want to know which is best

I am 30 and just got my UK licence and want to buy a car. Any tricks to getting cheap insurance?

I have had my NZ drivers licence since I was 16 and many years of no-claims. However, I haven't owned a car or insurance policy in the UK. Any tops for not having to pay very high premiums? I would love to get a sports car, but it's looking very expensive. (Would it be worth registering in girlfriends name and being a named driver?)""

Question about insurance coverage?

Okay today my car was broken into at school and they shattered the drivers side window and stole my $150 radio and my $120 graphing calculator. I have full auto insurance coverage but what coverage does this fall under? Comprehensive coverage? I saw on this website that homeowners insurance would cover this but that didn't make sense to me. Does the car have to be home when the break in happened? WILL CHOOSE BEST ANSWER

Instead of buying auto insurance is there a way to just have a savings account just for $coverages?

So all US states require all cars on the road to have insurance ... since insurance is just dollars put asside for release in the event of emergencies or other pre-determined event ... why cant I just put $100,000 into a bank account and call it my auto liability account and have my car insured with the state under my name providing that I don't touch those funds?""

Do you have to have car insurance to legally drive?

Do you? and do you have to have car insurance to buy a used car say from maybe someone on craigslist? can you get a license plate for your new used car if you don't have car insurance?

Insurance for a honda civic?

I am 16 years old getting insurance for the first time got my licence a week ago never driven on it.....i want the simplest insurance ever something that will let me drive my car legally

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How to get health insurance for children.?

I'm trying to find info on getting insurance for a child. Does anyone know how a father that is ordered to provide the health care for his child but does not have custody can apply for programs like CHIPS. No insurance is offered through his job and I'm not sure what programs he can apply for since the child does not live with him. We are in Texas. Any info would help. Btw the mother cant qualify because of the new husbands income.

CAR INSURANCE - how can I insure my car in a California so my son can drive it even though I live in Florida ?

PROBLEM I own a car that my son drives. He lives in California and will have a California drivers liscense there. I live in Florida. what do I do. The car obviouslyt is in California as well.

Why would insurance for a 50cc cost 500?

its a 2007 50cc motorbike which i would like to insure in aberdeen, kept in a garage and locked. im 16 and have passed my cbt but not full lisence, the cheapest quote i could get was 480, and that was third party cover only. is their anything i can do to lower the cost and where can i get a cheaper quote http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1898234.htm < the bike""

Monthly car insurance?

Hi, im 17 and recently passed my test and bought a 2000 fiat punto. Now for insurance, can you get insured monthly and if so what are the best websites to use? Personal experiences would be good cheers""

Car insurance for students UK?

My son is on my car insurance as a named driver. He's 19 and held a clean licence for 2 years. However, he's off to university in September and will only use my car when home...probably only for the odd day here and there. Is there any insurance company who will add him as a named driver for a few days each time he comes home thus enabling me to go back to my usual extremely low payment? I'm a 50 something driver with a totally clean licence and max no-claims.""

Car Insurance Rates?

I am a 19 year old college student in VA. Currently my parents pay for my car insurance and cell phone bill. I would like to pay these on my own and was wondering what I could expect to pay for my insurance. I know that rates are highest for young single males, but I have had my license for 2 years, and I haven't had one speeding ticket or citation or anything. I haven't even been pulled over. So my record is good. Also, I have been in no accidents. So, what could I expect to pay? Thanks!""

What do we tell the insurance company and what will happen?

Ok, my mother let my 14 year old son drive her car around the yard. He somehow managed to hit the house, both my son and the house are relatively unscathed, The car on the other hand is a different story. So my question(s) is/are what do we tell the insurance company? Do we tell them that he was driving the car, maybe just say he was moving it so we could mow around it? If we do that what will happen to him, if anything? Do we say that one of us licensed adults did it? What will happen to us? We're trying to avoid the $500 deductible and go around insurance completely, but it's looking like it's going to cost quite a bit more than $500, so we are trying to weigh our options out and see what is our best route.""

Do I have to have car insurance in wis?

I have a car that is old, ( a VW Fox to be exact) and i was wondering if i need to have car insurance for it? i use the car for nothing more than to drive to work and back, because of the amazing gas milage, but i was woundering if im going to get into trouble if im ever pulled over and dont have insurance. I live in WIS so keep that in mind. Any help would be welcome. thx ahead of time.""

Can anyone suggest me a auto insurance company?

i have japan based luxury car. my friend saying pay insurance in a good company. so i am searching company? thank you.

Will they provide motorcycles at a motorcycle safety course?

I want to buy a Kawasaki ninja , but i dont know how to drive on its easy to learn i driven motor bikes over seas but its not the same. Well the motorcycle satey course will the provide a motorcycle a sports bike not a cruiser? and what do i need to bring exactly? Do you guys know on average how much motorcycle insurance cost for a 19 year old?? I know its different from different parts but from where your from. Detailed answers are much appreciated thanks guys!""

Can I claim health insurance costs?

If i am retired, 55 and have to pay my own health insurance, can I deduct them on my income taxes. Lets say the monthly premium is $500 and my anual income is $24,000""

For a 17 year old - how much does a car cost to run each month?

when i pass my test, i don't know whether to a actually buy a car. i'm 17 and if i bought a car, how much would it roughly cost to run including the insurance, maintenance, mot, and everything except for the petrol/diesel. the only problem is, i don't think i actually need the car as i'm at college with a bus pass, but in the summer i want to drive lots of places with friends like go camping etc with a car. i was interesested in renting one as it seems ideal for my wants, but you need to be like 22 to rent. is this true? to anyone who is driving at 17 in the uk - is it worth it or is it too expensive?""

Why are so many insurance companies hiring agents?

Is it because of the government trying to force coverage on people?

When does the health insurance bill take effect?

I live in Georgia and was wondering when I need health insurance by

Do you need car insurance to visit on a army base?

Well I am going to visit my friend on the Fort Lewis, Washington army base. and he is saying I need car insurance? Well my coworker said no but if you do get pulled over on base without car insurance the ticket is double. So do I need it to go on base? I will only be there for three days. Thanks.""

Whats the cheapest car insurance for someone that has points on the their driving record.?

Insurance's on a 16 year old driver?

i am 16 years old and i am looking for cars.. i found a used 2006 audi a6, i really like it and i want it to be my first car!!! does any body know how much it would cost too insure me under it ??????????""

How much does car insurance cost?

I'm saving up for a car and I wanna see how much I will be spending. I know it'll be a lot so I don't want any advice that I should really think about it and stuff I just want answers please. I'm 18 and I'm barley gonna get my lisence. I wanna get atleast a 2011 scion tc. How much will insurance cost? I know it'll be a lot cause of the car and cause I'm a new driver and stuff. And if anyone knows how much a 2011 tc will cost and how much I would have to pay a month for it that would help too. Can someone give me an estimate please. Thanks a lot.

Do I HAVE to have car insurance in order to drive?

So I just got my license a few days ago, and I'm confused with the whole insurance thing... I am not getting my own car until I graduate high school, which won't be for like a year ish. So do I need insurance in order to drive my parents car OCCASIONALLY? Both my parents have car insurance. So pretty much, it would have been better to just have my permit where I don't need car insurance, instead of getting my license and being forced to get car insurance even if I'm going to be driving RARELY? Whereas with my permit, I could drive within hours with an adult for as long as I want without needing car insurance.........""

Do I need road tax to get insurance?

My car was SORN declared and now I need insurance to get road tax. I did not keep on my insurance as it was off the road for some time. I have the MOT but do I need road tax to get insurance? Bit of a catch 22 situation!

Where can I find information about female car insurance? Is it really cheaper than for men?

Question about gap insurance?

I just wanted to know about how much the dealer charges for gap or at least an average. I refinanced my vehicle and am awarded a refund of my gap because the new financing is offered with it. So I don't know if anyone has gone through this, but if you have any answers please let me know. Thanks in advance.""

Suggestions on where to purchase good health insurance?

My husband and I are looking to purchase health insurance. We are young (under 25), healthy (non-smokers) and looking for coverage mainly for doctor's office visits and prescriptions. Can anyone recommend a good website or insurance company that we can look at to choose a plan? We live in Michigan if that makes a difference too.""

I am planning to buy medical insurance. Which insurance company provides affordable service with good service.

I am 25 working as a consultant but my company doesn't provide insurance. I am looking for a good insurance company to provide me with affordable service. Also what does term Plan type, Deductible, Coinsurance and Office visit mean in simple terms. I work in seattle.""

What is the cheapest car insurance for a new student driver?

What is the cheapest possible car insurance for a new driver who is 17 years old and drives a 2005 ford explorer? I also live in NJ. I'm looking for the cheapest car insurance possible. The plan is for me only, no other drivers to be added. I need answers asap. Please help!""

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Who is the most dependable Motorcycle insurances and the cheapest?

What all do I really needfar as coverage..I have good medical already...what's the minimum coverage? I have a new HD fatboy 2006 with the 1689 cc with custom pipes. I just wantthe basic coverage. How much is a good premium?

State Farm Insurance Policies?

How old do you have to be to get your own car insurance with state farm?

About NRMA Car Insurance?

My grandma was driving and she was insured with NRMA. But since the past few weeks she just stopped driving and started taking public transports since she wasn't travelling to far. And the insurance expiry date is due, which mean she has to pay to continue to be covered. I was just wondering if its possible for her to not making the payment and pause the insurance for a while? Or is it compulsory to have an insurance with the car all the time?""

Cheap cars to insure at 21?

ok so i am looking for a cheap car that will not cost me for insurance the cheaper the better the car does not need to be a top of the range brand spanking new thing for all i care it can be from 1970 as long as the insurance for them are cheap

Insurance ........................?

i m working for a insurance company and doing 100000 rs business(premium collected in regular plans what should be myjustified salary

2006 cadillac cts insurance rate for teens?

i want my dad to give me his car but i wanted to know how much the insurance would be its the base 2006 2.8L cts and its salvaged , so yeah state farm rates would be a +, State of California""

Health insurance?

im 21 years old i dont know anything about health insurance what affordable insurance would you recommend?? i want to get braces

Was it wise for me to cancel my car insurance?

I had gotten into an accident. ICBC says it's 100% my fault, and I did just file an injury claim for myself and my family members that were in the car with me. I don't think my car is drivable, but if it is, then it's not worth fixing because I don't have collision and it would cost more to fix than how much I had bought it for. What I did yesterday, was cancelled my car insurance. But I was just talking to someone who told me that it wasn't a good idea to do that. And now I'm doubting myself. Will this be held against me? The person in the other car claimed injury and her car is also damaged. Did I just dig a deeper hole for myself?""

Why does Infinity car insurance suck?

everytime i called them for help they always sounds like they are mad and rude at the same time, and they don't even care about helping me out just by the sounds of their voice!!! my question is what a good car insurance out there???""

Cheapest car under 1000 to insure?

I'm 17, male and want the cheapest insurance possible.""

Arizona residents who are familiar with medical insurance?

If you live in the Maricopa valley area, do you happen to know who the biggest insurance (medical) providers are. Other than ACCHS? Thanx""

How I can get health insurance coverage?

Did any one have any idea how I can get health insurance? Thanks God I have a lot health problems and I can't afford buy individual health insurance because my existing health issues. i try to find job with health insurance but i cant is hard

How much would car insurance be for me?

I'm 15.5 and I really want to get my learners permit, but I gotta talk my parents into it. I would pay for EVERYTHING. I just need to know how much. I know its hard to calculate, but please estimate! :) When I buy insurance my info will be 16 years old Male 3.8 GPA driving a 2012 Jeep Wrangler Los Angeles California And I would want medium coverage the help would be great! thanks :)""

16 year old girl car insurance?

When I get my license, my parents will be putting me on my own plan and will be having a 1995 Geo Tracker in my own name. On average, how much would it cost a month to get the insurance I need? I'm hoping to be getting $450 a month. My cumilative GPA is a 3.2 I don't know what other information would be helpful.""

Affordable health insurance?

if any of you guys know any good and affordable health insurance in NJ. We(my wife and I) really need one that we could afford. Thank You!

How much should car insurance cost me?

im 16 and ive been saving some money for a while and i bought a 1998 honda civic, im currently paying $265/month for insurance is that too much, because im not sure im going to make the insurance this month because my hours were cut""

""Life, auto, and home insurance questions?""

The type of life insurance often used as mortgage insurance is: A. decreasing term. B. universal life. C. whole life. D. homeowners insurance. Expensive jewelry is usually insured by a(n): A. umbrella policy. B. replacement cost rider. C. policy floater. D. named-perils policy. The U.S. Congress added disability insurance to the Social Security Act in 19____. A. 35 B. 54 C. 65 D. 72 This type of auto insurance coverage would help pay your medical expenses, if you were injured by a hit-and-run driver. A. Uninsured motorist protection B. Comprehensive coverage C. Medical payments D. Collision insurance As a rule of thumb, experts say that most married people should carry ______ times their net pay in life insurance coverage. A. 2 B. 3 C. 4 D. 5""

Why do women get lower car insurance rates?

Is this true? Are women's car insurance rates lower? like here: http://bestquoteus.com/carinsurance/womencarinsurance.html

Car insurance and crash?

ok well last night it was rainy and i was going down a street i tryed to stop and take a turn but i lost control and went over the curb scraped the left front of my car pretty bad. the damage was my front bumper is pretty much destroyed, the mirror broke off, wrecked the front left tire, and a huge long dent on the front left top of the car just before reaching the front hood and also a hole near the door and now i cant open the front door all the way. after i had to change the tire and i drove home. this was my first crash involving car insurance and im 17. will i still be able to drive if the car insurance covers it? i really dont know whats about to happen.""

I am looking for my auto insurance statement so I can see if my husband paid our insurance?

where do i go on the net so that I can view our previous payments on our insurance

What is the best life insurance to get BEFORE melanoma diagnosis?

I am 99% sure I have melanoma on my leg. Have apt soon to get this confirmed and staged and start the process. I am a nurse, I know the process, and know the outcome can be one of many. I do not currently have any life insurance, never have. I have 2 small children and it is JUST me and then, no close friends, no family. Worst case scenario, if I only have a short time to live, what would be the best LIFE insurance I can get before getting this diagnosis? I would need something in which they could not cancel me if I am diagnosed with cancer within days of purchasing a premium. Today is May 11th, I should have my diagnosis by May 29th. I would like the biggest policy at the most affordable rate (I don't make as much money as you would think), but its also important that I get the fewest stipulations. By the way, I hate to admit it, but I am a smoker. I quit from 2009 to late 2010, but then started up again when I started RN school (am an LPN now, graduate from RN school in 3 weeks). Any solid advice would be appreciated. In laymens terms please.""

""Best car insurance, in your opinion?

I'm getting my car insured by myself for the first time and would appreciate any advice!!

Cheap florida health insurance?

my wife and i want to have a child but cannot afford to pay for the complete doctors visit and all.. we do not qualify for medicaid what insurance that is affordable can we use?

Renault clio 1.3L 16v Insurance costs?

how much will it cost to insure me in a Renault Clio 1.3L 16v when i am 17 using a provisional license

Insurance policies and pre existing conditions?

i have been looking into to health insurance policies.Since i no longer can carry a HMO through my state since they are doing away with the program altogether. I dont know what to look for, for the best usage of my money. I have had some medical issues come up but have not really been diagnosed with anything yet and need to have a procedure and a few test done but because i do not have insurance then they want an outrageous down payment that i can not afford. So my question is, what policies should l look for? should i be looking into pre existing health insurance? Is short term health insurance something i should steer away from? i need health insurance like yesterday!""

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